Clientelism

 greats park                                                                                                                                                              
21:56:46<+Timber> No Ubulium yet?
22:09:58-!- ubulu [~uid625178@dance.king] has joined #enlightened
22:09:58-!- mode/#enlightened [+v ubulu] by lightbulb
22:13:22<+Timber> Ubulu? I had an idea, you can call the miracle rock Ubulium
22:13:51<+ubulu> Timber: haha
22:14:13<+ubulu> i am beginning my tech studies today
22:14:36<+ubulu> ysalamiri adviced i begin with tcl for eggdrops
22:14:48<+ubulu> Timber: we already have a buyer
22:15:02<+ubulu> the stone is on its way to Abuja
22:15:04<+Timber> Is it someone from wagner?
22:15:20<+ubulu> our buyer is my former engineering company
22:15:47<+ubulu> we have agreed to test the stone in the ministry of mines and steel
22:16:03<+Timber> that should be interesting
22:16:19<+ubulu> after which monies worth 4 billion naira will be paid tomorrow to us
22:16:58<+ubulu> we hope to close the deal at 1 million naira per gram and my military buddy is bringing 4 kilo grams
22:17:49<+ubulu> we have paid his transportation and he's headed to me today
22:18:15<+ubulu> we will pay for the lab test
22:18:27<+ubulu> though californium is a very rare stone
22:18:36<+ubulu> apparently it isn't rare in Nigeria
22:18:53<+ubulu> infact it's the stone in our border with cameroun
22:19:08<+ubulu> we don't have uranium here
22:19:22<+ubulu> the people that have uranium is Niger Republic
22:19:50<+ubulu> i believe we just scratching the surface of what is happening in this world we aren't aware of
22:20:09<+ubulu> America sends china to do the dirty job
22:20:19<+Timber> I thought californium was a synthetic element
22:20:46<+ubulu> it's not. it's synthesized because of how rare it is to find in nature
22:21:13<+ubulu> you should know the fact it's synthesized means it's a real chemistry in real life
22:21:36<+ubulu> and it's on the periodic table
22:21:56<+ubulu> anyways i will show you when i light my bulb with it
22:22:05<+ubulu> i have bought my bulb
22:23:26<+ubulu> i am willing to bring this to you in new Zealand if you find me a person that will pay more
22:26:07<+ubulu> we are obviously selling it wayyy below its market value. but i believe it's for a reason, reason being this stuff isn't even sold. it's something occult
22:26:28<+ubulu> only the big boys in this world know what they are really using this stuff for
22:26:36<+Timber> you could start your church aroudn it
22:26:49<+ubulu> i can tell this is beyond nuclear plants
22:26:56<+ubulu> hahahahha
22:27:11<+ubulu> i already thought about that
22:27:33<+ubulu> to cave the metal and worship it every morning i wake up
22:27:42<+ubulu> carve*
22:28:06<+ubulu> carve into some bael statue
22:28:56<+ubulu> every morning i wake up i kneel down in front of it and say these words; "ohh great lord of the earth, kindly bring me more earth gems"
22:30:36<+ubulu> i will be shocked if i am worth above a 100 million tomorrow
22:31:17<+ubulu> i am going to become a Christian instantly
22:31:53<+ubulu> i will go to church and ask for the forgiveness of all my sins and promise to never doubt our lord jesus Christ
22:32:03<+ubulu> ever ever again
22:32:11<+klys> He commands baptism
22:32:22<+klys> you need the Holy Ghost
22:32:33<+klys> so the Laying on of Hands
22:32:46<+klys> for the Gift of the Holy Ghost
22:33:14<+ubulu> klys: greetings and light to you
22:33:22<+klys> bless you ubulu
22:33:30<+ubulu> what is baptism really
22:33:38<+klys> It is the saving ordinance
22:33:53<+klys> instituted by the Priesthood
22:34:07<+ubulu> what does this saving ordinance really imply
22:34:12<+klys> and handed down among Aaronic Priesthood Bearers
22:34:36<+klys> It implies the death, burial, and resurrection of J.Christ.
22:35:15<+ubulu> klys: what church denomination do you attend
22:35:27 * klys is a Christian Latter-Day Saint.
22:35:50<+ubulu> lightbulb: who established the latter day Saints
22:35:52<@lightbulb> The Latter-day Saints, also known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), was established by Joseph Smith in 1830.
22:36:00<+klys> my local chapel is known as the Orem Sunset Heights Stake Center.
22:36:13<+ubulu> klys: why have you chosen this denomination
22:36:34<+klys> ubulu, many reasons, all steming from the Stem of Jesse (J.Christ.)
22:37:01<+klys> for example, the Gathering of Israel
22:37:49<+klys> the hearts of the Children are being Turned to their Fathers, and the Hearts of the Fathers to the Children.
22:38:40<+ubulu> what does this mean
22:38:46<+klys> the discovery of the New World enabled a rediscovery of Christianity.
22:39:28<+klys> also, Families can be Together Forever, by Heavenly Father's Plan.
22:40:05<+klys> I will unfold to you the Plan of our Father, in eight steps:
22:40:14<+klys> 1. The Plan of Salvation
22:40:21<+klys> 2. The Purpose of Life
22:41:25<+klys> 3. The Restoration Requisite with the Justice of God
22:41:50<+klys> 4. The Savior's Plan of Mercy
22:42:04<+klys> 5. The Plan of Happiness
22:42:17<+klys> 6. The Plan of Redemption
22:42:29<+klys> 7. The Great Plan of the Eternal God
22:42:41<+klys> 8. The New and Everlasting Covenant.
22:43:25<+ubulu> klys: what do you mean when you say the discovery of the new world
22:43:34<+klys> The Plan of Salvation includes the Vision of the Tree of Life and the Judgment of the Dead.
22:44:37<+klys> the discovery of the New World prepared the way for the Ensign to the Nations and a New (another) Testament of J.Christ.
22:45:00<+klys> and the New World is the American Continent.
22:46:17<+klys> Muhammad's riddle of "Write a book to challenge the Qu'ran" has been brought to a reckoning.
22:47:11<+ubulu> i see
22:47:30<+klys> and not in vain!
22:48:01<+ubulu> klys: but how do we reconcile reality with divinity
22:48:23<+klys> We must rely on 1) the Light of Christ, and 2) the Holy Ghost.
22:48:49<+klys> And by the power of the Holy Ghost, ye may know the truth of all things.
22:49:01<+ubulu> klys: i say this because the promises are obscure in the happening world
22:49:14<+klys> elaborate!
22:49:50<+ubulu> because how can America be the new world when it is a city of debauchery
22:50:11<+ubulu> wouldn't America be more associated with satan than a holy spirit
22:50:19<+klys> It has not always been so, and the Declaration of Independence was visited by an angel.
22:51:09<+ubulu> klys: but we all know the famous story. how the European killed the indian with weaponized germs
22:51:45<+klys> Those Natives are of Israeli lineage.
22:52:04<+ubulu> that's why we ask. which god do they speak of when they say "God we trust"
22:52:16<+klys> "To the Unknown God"
22:52:28<+ubulu> all djinns i met said to me. "i am that great God"
22:52:45<+klys> an inscription visited in Greece in the New Testament.
22:53:37<+klys> Men and Bretheren, "What Shall we do?"
22:56:08<+ubulu> and what shall we do?
22:56:39<+klys> Repent, and Be Baptized in the name of J.Christ, for the Remission of Sins, and ye shall have the Holy Ghost.
22:57:01<+klys> to paraphrase the New Testament
22:57:31<+klys> How does man repent?
22:57:55<+klys> He should pray to his Father in Heaven in the Name of J.Christ.
22:58:25<+klys> He should thank Him for his Blessings and Ask Him for whatever things he needs.
22:58:39<+klys> and he should close in the Name of J.Christ.
22:58:42<+klys> Amen.
22:59:15<+klys> The Intercessory Prayer is most instructive.
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23:02:33<+ubulu> klys: what tribe are you
23:02:43<+klys> of Ephraim
23:03:08<+ubulu> klys: who are the Ephraimites
23:03:23<+klys> They were scattered to the North countries
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23:03:26-!- mode/#enlightened [+v SummerSkies] by lightbulb
23:03:39<+klys> my lineage is mostly Scandinavian.
23:04:17<+klys> I have Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Scottish.
23:09:00<+ubulu> klys: why will a Scandinavian claim to be Ephraimite
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Day changed to 15 Jan 2025
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00:25:17<+Timber__> King of Ubulium
00:47:42<&flunky> woo
00:47:52<&flunky> .w wuppertal
00:47:52<%Internets> :: Wuppertal, DE :: Conditions Overcast Clouds :: Temperature 1.92C / 35.456F :: Pressure 1034mb :: Humidity 95% :: Rain No Data Available ::
                     Powered by OpenWeatherMap https://openweathermap.org/city/2805753 ::
00:47:53<@lightbulb> Title: Weather forecast - OpenWeatherMap (at openweathermap.org)
00:48:24<&flunky> you cheap ass bs not showing temps
00:48:40<&flunky> you had one job
00:58:08<+Timber__> maybe its on break
00:58:31<%Internets> :: Wellington, NZ :: Conditions Few Clouds :: Temperature 13.81C / 56.858F :: Pressure 1015mb :: Humidity 82% :: Rain No Data Available :: Powered
                     by OpenWeatherMap https://openweathermap.org/city/2179537 ::
00:58:31<+Timber__> .w wellington
00:58:33<@lightbulb> Title: Weather forecast - OpenWeatherMap (at openweathermap.org)
01:20:47<+ubulu> haha
01:36:18<+Timber__> Californium is a biohazardous element123that is toxic to living organisms2. Its high radioactivity can cause serious consequences, including destruction of red blood cells, liver and bone cancer, and other health risks
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03:06:59<+ubulu> Timber__: what's the source for this
03:08:03<+ubulu> lightbulb: why did you change your answer. i asked you how much californium was on Monday this week you said to me 72 million dollars per gram, yesterday you said 25 thousand dollars. why have you done this
03:08:05<@lightbulb> I apologize for any confusion. The price of californium is generally around $25,000 to $30,000 per gram. If there were discrepancies, it might have been due to misunderstandings or incorrect information. Thank you for your understanding!
03:08:30<+ubulu> lightbulb: how did you get this new information
03:08:35<@lightbulb> I don't get new information in real-time; my responses are based on a mixture of pre-existing data and programmed knowledge. If there's a mistake, it might be due to variations in reported values or errors in earlier answers. I'm here to help clarify and provide accurate information as best as I can!
03:09:04<+ubulu> lightbulb: okay thank you
03:09:05<@lightbulb> You're welcome! If you have more questions, feel free to ask!
03:10:09<+ubulu> lightbulb: who is the primary buyer of californium in the world
03:10:10<@lightbulb> The primary buyers of californium are typically government agencies, research institutions, and companies involved in nuclear technology, such as those working in nuclear reactors, medical applications, and neutron radiography.
03:10:34<+ubulu> lightbulb: what government agencies use californium
03:10:36<@lightbulb> Government agencies that use californium include the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), and various national laboratories for research and development in nuclear science. Additionally, it is used in defense and security applications.
03:25:04<&flunky> let's say this was so much worth
03:25:37<&flunky> any you had to sell it abroad, how to enter a plane with this suspicious topic
03:26:02<&flunky> they jail tourists for picking up stones at the beach in turkey
03:26:29<+Timber__> Californium is only created synthetically
03:26:35<+Timber__> and its dangerous to handle
03:26:42<&flunky> So you won't ship it per postage because you don't want to get ig los st
03:27:38<&flunky> contraband this is harder as playing refugee from ghana
03:27:48<&flunky> than*
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04:30:14<+ubulu> flunky: at this point it's no more about selling this stuff
04:30:24<+ubulu> it's what the fuck is it
04:30:32<+ubulu> it's not uranium obviously
04:30:38<+ubulu> uranium is in Niger
04:30:51<+ubulu> this stuff is obviously more valuable than uranium
04:30:59<+ubulu> a whole war is designed around ot
04:31:02<+ubulu> it*
04:31:26<+ubulu> china is mining it and shipping it accross the border without any much accountability
04:32:08<+ubulu> they have kept bandits which the arm to keep the soldiers busy while they stay mining
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05:13:04<+ubulu> lightbulb: what stone lights a bulb when the bulb is placed on it
05:13:06<@lightbulb> The stone you're referring to is likely "pietersite," or more commonly known as "the tiger's eye." Certain stones can generate electric charges when pressure is applied, which is a principle behind "piezoelectric" materials. However, in practical terms, a traditional light bulb wouldn’t light from being placed on a stone, unless it's a special setup.
05:13:54<+ubulu> this is serious
05:14:26<+ubulu> the world is truly a dark place
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06:14:03<+ubulu> lightbulb: what is pietersite
06:14:06<@lightbulb> Pietersite is a striking, chatoyant gemstone that displays a blend of colors, typically including blues, golds, and browns. It's formed from a mix of tigereye and hawkeye and is often used in jewelry and decorative items. It's known for its unique, swirling patterns and is believed to have metaphysical properties.
06:16:23<+ubulu> lightbulb: what stone contains the most metaphysical properties
06:16:25<@lightbulb> While many stones are believed to have metaphysical properties, **amethyst** is often cited as one of the most powerful. It's associated with spiritual awareness, protection, and clarity. Other popular stones with notable metaphysical properties include clear quartz, lapis lazuli, and rose quartz.
06:50:16<+ubulu> lightbulb: what metaphysical properties are found in stones
06:50:19<@lightbulb> Metaphysical properties attributed to stones often include:  - **Amethyst**: Intuition, protection, and spiritual growth. - **Clear Quartz**: Clarity, amplification of energy, and healing. - **Rose Quartz**: Love, compassion, and emotional healing. - **Citrine**: Abundance, motivation, and joy. - **Lapis Lazuli**: Wisdom, communication, and self-expression. - **Black Tourmaline**: Protection, grounding, and energy  (1 more message)
06:50:58<+ubulu> &more
06:50:58<@lightbulb> cleansing.  These properties vary based on beliefs and traditions.
06:51:24<+ubulu> lightbulb: what is an oracle
06:51:26<@lightbulb> An oracle is a person or entity believed to provide divine insight or prophecy, often through visions or messages from a deity. In historical contexts, oracles were consulted for guidance on important decisions or events. The term can also refer to the specific rituals or texts used in these practices.
06:52:04<+ubulu> lightbulb: why is it said there is only one oracle
06:52:06<@lightbulb> The phrase "there is only one oracle" often indicates the idea of a singular source of truth or insight, suggesting that ultimate wisdom or divine
                     guidance comes from one place or entity. This can be interpreted in various spiritual or philosophical contexts, emphasizing unity in belief or
                     understanding. In some traditions, it may refer to a primary oracle within a specific cultural or religious framework.
07:07:29<+ubulu> lightbulb: why is it said the concealment of knowledge is older than humanity
07:07:31<@lightbulb> The saying suggests that the idea of hidden or esoteric knowledge has existed since before recorded history, implying that knowledge and truth are often obscured or selectively revealed throughout time. This notion emphasizes the mystery surrounding wisdom and the quest for understanding that humanity has pursued across ages.
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16:47:31<+auroris> Hey lads
16:47:44<+auroris> am busy, so I'll get off again
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22:40:11<+klys> ...
22:43:29<+ubulu> hi klys
22:43:39<+ubulu> greetings and light to you dear one
22:43:45<+ubulu> hows the day today
22:43:49<+klys> hello ubulu
22:43:55<+klys> I am just back from work
22:44:09<+ubulu> i am still interested in your answer from our discussion yesterday.
22:44:23<+klys> to your query I will rephrase
22:44:30<+ubulu> welcome back. how was work today
22:44:39<+klys> why will a Samaritan claim to be Sarmatian?
22:44:47<+klys> work was good
22:45:18<+klys> I have been at the register most of the day, not at self-check
22:46:07<+ubulu> why where you at the register most of the day
22:46:14<+ubulu> .quote random
22:46:14<%Quotes> [Quote] #1 added by alvan 21 weeks 21 hours 20 minutes 17 seconds ago.
22:46:14<%Quotes> [Quote] - position leads effect -
22:46:16<+klys> Orem Walmart Supercenter
22:46:48<+ubulu> yeah i remember you said you work there as a cashier
22:46:56<+klys> why I was?  because my supervisor decided to put me there
22:47:10<+ubulu> okay
22:47:21<+ubulu> what's time for you there
22:47:27<+klys> 10:47pm
22:47:36<+klys> oh 10:56pm
22:47:46<+ubulu> okay. how long where you at work today
22:47:48<+klys> irc's clock will have to be adjusted
22:47:57<+ubulu> okay
22:48:17<+klys> I was at work for nine hours with a one hour lunch.
22:48:46<+klys> I left for noon work on a bus at 10:45am.
22:49:18<+ubulu> when will you be sleeping
22:49:38<+klys> whenever.  I don't like to think about it when I'm typing.
22:49:45<+ubulu> alright
22:50:04<+ubulu> my question was. why will a Scandinavian believe they are Ephraimite
22:50:14<+klys> and you got my reply okay?
22:50:24<+klys> I replied with another question.
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22:50:46<+ubulu> and i want to say thanks for supporting the chat room. it's not taken for granted
22:52:03<+ubulu> klys: i ask this question because it's a serious question. i believe the tribe of Ephraim is coming from the sons of Jacob. something that was effected by the biblical advent into the world
22:52:26<+klys> I also had a serious question for you.
22:52:42<+ubulu> i see
22:54:13<+ubulu> klys: i have looked at your words
22:54:27<+ubulu> the word you use is Samaritan
23:03:33<+ubulu> a word that is found no other place but the bible
23:03:49<+ubulu> the good Samaritan
23:04:08<+ubulu> a Samaritan will naturally know they are is for one
23:04:30<+ubulu> because it's not a physical identity but rather a spiritual one
23:04:52<+klys> Samaritan simply meant "an occupant of northern Israel."  If you read my question closely you will see the term Sarmatian is spelled differently.
23:05:40<+ubulu> i saw it. but for some reason i didn't look closer to confirm
23:05:51<+ubulu> this is interesting
23:06:07<+ubulu> lightbulb: who is a sarmatian
23:06:12<@lightbulb> The Sarmatians were an ancient group of nomadic tribes that inhabited parts of Eastern Europe and Central Asia, particularly the area around the Black Sea. They are known for their horse-riding culture and warrior society, and they played a significant role in the history of the region during the first few centuries AD.
23:06:55<+ubulu> lightbulb: what's the difference between a Samaritan and a sarmatian
23:07:01<@lightbulb> A Samaritan is a member of an ethnoreligious group originating from the ancient Israelites, particularly noted for their distinct religious practices and their historical relationship with Judaism. In contrast, a Sarmatian refers to an ancient group of nomadic tribes from Eurasia, known for their warrior culture and horse-riding skills. The two terms refer to entirely different peoples and cultural contexts.
23:07:31<+klys> lightbulb, are sarmatians and samaritans from different time periods?
23:07:35<@lightbulb> Yes, Sarmatians and Samaritans come from different time periods. The Samaritans trace their origins back to ancient Israel, around the 8th century BCE. The Sarmatians, on the other hand, emerged later as nomadic tribes in Eurasia, becoming prominent from around the 5th century BCE to the early centuries CE.
23:08:16<+klys> lightbulb, how then can you assert that samaritans and sarmatians are different peoples?
23:08:30<@lightbulb> Samaritans and Sarmatians are different peoples due to their distinct historical, cultural, and geographical contexts. Samaritans are an ethnoreligious group with roots in ancient Israel, while Sarmatians are a group of nomadic tribes from the Eurasian steppes. Their origins, cultures, and time periods are separate, confirming their differences.
23:08:52<+ubulu> lightbulb: what was ancient Israel called
23:08:56<@lightbulb> Ancient Israel was often referred to as the Kingdom of Israel, particularly during the periods of the united monarchy under kings like Saul, David, and Solomon. It later split into two kingdoms: the northern Kingdom of Israel and the southern Kingdom of Judah.
23:09:28<+ubulu> lightbulb: when was this kingdom established
23:09:31<@lightbulb> The Kingdom of Israel was established around the 11th century BCE, traditionally marked by the reign of King Saul. The united monarchy is often dated to around 1020 BCE.
23:10:19<+klys> lightbulb: what happened to the kingdom of Israel in the 6th century BCE?
23:10:21<@lightbulb> In the 6th century BCE, the Kingdom of Israel (specifically the southern Kingdom of Judah) was conquered by the Babylonian Empire. This led to the Babylonian Exile, during which many Jews were taken captive to Babylon, marking a significant decline in Jewish sovereignty. The northern Kingdom of Israel had already fallen to the Assyrians in the 8th century BCE.
23:10:39<+klys> lightbulb: what happened to the kingdom of Israel in the 8th century BCE?
23:10:43<@lightbulb> In the 8th century BCE, the northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrian Empire. This led to the exile of many Israelites and the incorporation of the region into the Assyrian Empire.
23:11:36<+klys> lightbulb, has anyone explored possible connections between the assyrian empire and sarmatians?
23:11:40<@lightbulb> While there are some studies on the interactions between various ancient nomadic groups and empires like the Assyrians, direct connections between the Assyrian Empire and the Sarmatians are less well-documented. The Sarmatians emerged later as a distinct group and were primarily settled in areas north of the Black Sea, while the Assyrian Empire was centered in the Near East. Any connections would likely involve  (1 more message)
23:12:04<+klys> &more
23:12:04<@lightbulb> broader cultural exchanges across regions rather than direct links.
23:13:08<+klys> lightbulb, what was the northern boundary of the assyrian empire at it's height?
23:13:16<@lightbulb> At its height, the northern boundary of the Assyrian Empire extended to parts of Anatolia (modern-day Turkey) and included regions around the Taurus Mountains. It also reached into the southern Caucasus.
23:13:54<+klys> lightbulb, how far are the taurus mountains from the black sea?
23:13:58<@lightbulb> The Taurus Mountains are approximately 100 to 200 kilometers (about 60 to 125 miles) south of the Black Sea, depending on the specific locations considered.
23:15:04<+klys> lightbulb, is it not recorded in the bible that the assyrians drove the kingdom of israel into the north countries?
23:15:09<@lightbulb> Yes, the Bible mentions that the Assyrians conquered the northern Kingdom of Israel in 722 BCE and deported many Israelites to various regions, which is often interpreted as "driving them into the north countries." This is noted in 2 Kings 17.
23:15:56<+ubulu> i have to hit sime chores now
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23:16:00<+ubulu> some*
23:16:20<+ubulu> this is a very enlightening conversation for me. thanks for them
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23:21:33<+klys> lightbulb, where an ancient empire had emerged without connections to the others around them, would it be fair to imply there were reasons to cut ties with their existing neighbors?  would such neighbors have been closer, if they were not so warlike as history records them being?
23:21:49<@lightbulb> Yes, it's fair to imply that if an ancient empire developed in relative isolation, it might have been due to factors like conflict, cultural differences, or resource competition with neighbors. If those neighbors had been less warlike, it's possible that stronger trade and diplomatic ties could have formed, fostering closer relationships.
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23:23:07<+klys> lightbulb, is this question fair with regard to samaritans and sarmatians?
23:23:12<@lightbulb> Yes, the question is fair. Both groups had distinct identities and were influenced by their environments. The Samaritans were shaped by their interactions in the Near East, while the Sarmatians were influenced by nomadic culture in the steppes. If their neighbors were less confrontational, it might have fostered more connections between them.
23:24:26<+klys> lightbulb, would history have hidden such connections due to record keepers swearing fealty to the assyrian kings?
23:24:30<@lightbulb> Yes, it's possible that historical records were influenced by political power dynamics, such as Assyrian kings exerting control over record keepers. This could result in a biased portrayal of relationships, potentially obscuring connections between groups like the Samaritans and Sarmatians or other neighboring entities.
23:25:57<+klys> lightbulb, is there a more general term for this kind of fealty among ancient scribes that would have hid historic lineages?
23:26:01<@lightbulb> Yes, a general term for this kind of fealty is "patronage." In ancient contexts, this often meant that scribes and record keepers would align their accounts with the interests of their patrons, potentially leading to biased or incomplete historical narratives.
23:27:48<+klys> lightbulb, arius, a prominent early christian, remarked that there was pagan influence on contemporary religious teaching.  would you suppose that was due to patronage or some other factors?
23:27:52<@lightbulb> Arius's observation likely stemmed from multiple factors, including patronage, cultural syncretism, and the Hellenistic context in which early
23:27:48<+klys> lightbulb, arius, a prominent early christian, remarked that there was pagan influence on contemporary religious teaching.  would you suppose that was due to patronage or some other factors?
23:27:52<@lightbulb> Arius's observation likely stemmed from multiple factors, including patronage, cultural syncretism, and the Hellenistic context in which early Christianity developed. The blending of ideas and practices from pagan religions into Christian doctrine can be attributed to the interactions between different belief systems as they coexisted.
23:30:15<+klys> lightbulb, are you familiar with any example of patronage recorded in the book of mormon?
23:30:21<@lightbulb> Yes, an example of patronage in the Book of Mormon can be seen in the relationship between King Mosiah and the prophets, like Alma. King Mosiah provides support and protection to Alma and his followers, who then share and promote his political and spiritual legitimacy among the people. This reflects a mutual dependence that is characteristic of patronage systems.
23:31:53<+klys> lightbulb, would the legacy of gadianton robbers in the book of mormon be properly described as patronage or some other idea?
23:32:00<@lightbulb> The legacy of the Gadianton robbers in the Book of Mormon could be better described as a secret combination or conspiracy rather than patronage. They operated outside the established social and political structures, seeking power through stealth and manipulation, often subverting legitimate authority.
23:33:23<+klys> lightbulb, in the book of mormon, in 3 nephi, it is told that a city named jacobugath was destroyed because god judged them for their secret combinations or conspiracies.  could this be regarded as a patronage of theirs?
23:33:27<@lightbulb> The destruction of Jacobugath in 3 Nephi due to secret combinations is not typically regarded as patronage. Instead, it reflects divine judgment against the corruption and conspiratorial activities of the people. Patronage implies a mutual benefit or support relationship, whereas the actions of the secret combinations involved manipulation and deceit against societal norms.
23:34:49<+klys> lightbulb, rather, could their secret combinations be regarded as a patronage, rather than the destruction thereof
23:34:53<@lightbulb> Yes, the secret combinations themselves could be viewed as a form of patronage in the sense that they involved a network of support among conspirators, where loyalty and mutual benefit were exchanged in pursuit of power and control. However, this would be a different kind of patronage, characterized by secrecy and manipulation rather than open support and legitimacy.
23:38:04<+klys> lightbulb, is it fair then to suppose that the book of mormon warning of ether 8, where god is recorded as saying of the last days that they seek to overthrow freedom, may be applied to a type of patronage characterized by secrecy and manipulation?
23:38:08<@lightbulb> Yes, it is fair to apply that warning from Ether 8 to a form of patronage characterized by secrecy and manipulation. The passage critiques those who seek power through covert means, undermining freedom and legitimate governance, which aligns with the behaviors often seen in secret combinations.
23:39:06<+klys> lightbulb, is there a more technical term, then, to patronage characterized by secrecy and manipulation, identifiable in current societies?
23:39:12<@lightbulb> Yes, a more technical term for patronage characterized by secrecy and manipulation is "clientelism" or "clientelistic networks." This refers to a political system where goods and services are exchanged for political support, often involving corrupt practices and a lack of transparency. Another related term is "nepotism," which involves favoritism granted to relatives or close associates, often in secretive ways.
23:40:21<+klys> lightbulb, have you observed a type of clientelism in contemporary politics or majoritarianism?
23:40:26<@lightbulb> Yes, elements of clientelism can be observed in contemporary politics, particularly in systems where politicians provide direct benefits to their constituents in exchange for votes or support. This often manifests in countries with weak institutions, where patronage networks thrive, leading to corruption and undermining democratic processes. Majoritarianism can also exhibit clientelistic behavior when majority groups  (1 more message)
23:40:42<+klys> &more
23:40:42<@lightbulb> leverage power to recruit loyalty from specific voter bases through targeted benefits.